Installing a Hydrogen Generator & Testing Gas Mileage
July 18, 2008 2:55 pm General Interest
Will a $150 hydrogen generator turn a 97 Saturn (Beater) into a miracle water car!?
Myth Busting. Those of you who read our last post titled Is Hydrogen the Answer to America’s Rising Fuel Costs? know that I am skeptical of the claims found on the Internet, like Run your car on water and Save 57% Fuel & Double Gas Mileage. But after speaking to the aftermarket warranty inspector mentioned in that post, that thought it was plausible and he was willing to install a hydrogen generator on his 08 Civic, I figured I would give it try as well. Although the guys he talked to are sure that their hydrogen generators definitely work, for me seeing is believing. Even Popular Mechanics is also going to be testing a hydrogen generator to see if increased mileage claims can be verified or debunked. Even grown men have to play sometimes, right?
$150 Plus shipping. The kit I ordered from HydrogenGarage.com arrived sooner than expected, it basically consisted of a water filter canister (like for home use), stainless steel plates, threaded rods, nylon washers and steel nuts. The directions, that are available on-line in pdf format, were simple to follow. There were a few typographical errors, but they made up for that with plenty of good pictures that made assembly easy.
Prior to assembly. The instructions said to clean the threaded rods and stainless steel plates to remove any oily residue that may be present and to scuff the stainless steel plates by sanding them with 60 grit sandpaper to create a cross hatch scoring effect. After sanding the plates you clean them again prior to the assembly.
Plates attached. Once the plates were assembled, the next step is to put the plate and rod assembly into the canister and test it, out of the car. The Hydrogen generator is said to produce brown gas, I see why they say brown, the water turned brown within minutes after supplying power to create the electrolysis.
Finding room. It was a tight fit in this little car. The washer fluid reservoir was removed to make room for the hydrogen generator. Power was supplied from a switched/fused source. The directions say that a spark arrest-or or bubbler can be used, however I decided to run the 1/4″ vapor tube directly to the air intake.
Testing the gas mileage. To be honest I thought there would be little difference in mileage with or without the Hydrogen generator, but I couldn’t have predicted the actual results. This is what happened. So, I started my trip-ometer at zero and filled the tank up. After driving 102 miles with the Hydrogen generator on, it took 4.189 gallons to fill the gas tank up. I divided the miles by the gallons it took to fill the tank up and came up with 24.3 miles per gallon. I then reset the trip-ometer and with the Hydrogen generator turned off, drove 100.8 miles. I filled up the fuel tank again, this time it only took 3.28 gallons to fill up. After calculating the mileage, I found that the car got 30.7 miles per gallon. I actually got less miles per gallon with the Hydrogen generator on! Uh, is anyone interested in a slightly used Hydrogen generator?
Paul Whittaker :
Date: July 26, 2008 @ 9:08 pm
Did you reprogram the e.c.u? The computer will compensate for the added oxygen by adding more fuel, so your mileage will go down. You have to do it right for it to work.
dennisb :
Date: July 26, 2008 @ 10:06 pm
To be fair, I did not reprogram the car’s computer (nor did the 12 pages of directions say to do so). However, since Hydrogen is more flammable than gasoline, it should burn the additional small amount of oxygen that is released from the water, in the combustion chamber. For my test, I was looking for even a modest increase in mileage, without any other factors affecting the results. If I reprogram the ECU or alter the readings from the oxygen sensors in some way and then recorded a higher MPG, the increase could be a result of altering the air/fuel mixture instead of a direct result of the Hydrogen generator. If I experienced any increase at all, then tweaking would make sense.
Wayne :
Date: August 7, 2008 @ 2:18 pm
Added oxygen will not burn and sensors must be adjusted for an increase to be seen. Also with the power boost, if you drive 60 mph between every light you won’t see much increase either.
Tracy Allen - Automotive Tools :
Date: August 8, 2008 @ 10:10 am
Wayne, why wouldn’t “added oxygen” burn? And, how are you suppose to ADJUST an O-2 sensor?
D. R. Young :
Date: August 18, 2008 @ 12:02 pm
The ECU is programmed for a 14.7 to 1 ratio of air to gas. When HHO is injected into the system, the O2 sensor pick up additional oxygen, either as Oxygen or H2O vapor. The signal to the ECU reads leaner and so the computer increases the gas, decreasing your gas mileage.
dennisb :
Date: August 18, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
Wouldn’t the oxygen burn and therefore not be present in the exhaust?
D. R. Young :
Date: August 19, 2008 @ 12:16 pm
Oxygen doesn’t really “burn”. Oxygen is what makes things burn.
The 14.7 to 1 fuel mixture and its purpose.
Because there is more gas injected into the combustion chamber than is needed, this extra oxygen results in the fuel being more fully burned, the O2 sensor reads the result as being too lean and the computer injects more gas to compensate.
I hope this helps.
Mike Hagy :
Date: September 10, 2008 @ 7:58 pm
You should adjust for the leaner readings and your mileage should go up. Also how many liters of Hydrogen are you producing? And I would suggest using a bubbler or spark arrester in case of a backfire.
dennisb :
Date: September 11, 2008 @ 10:01 am
I appreciate your comments. If I leaned the fuel mixture out I probably would see a slight increase in mileage you are right. I haven’t checked the volume of gas being produced, but the car runs exactly the the same with or without the hydrogen generator on. I’ve read that vehicles with carburetors may tend to backfire more than fuel injected vehicles when using a Hydrogen generator. My questions for for you and others are the following: What’s your personal experience? Or have you just read about it? If you have tried a Hydrogen generator, did you notice an increase in mileage? I’m interested in actual results from others not just quotes from articles that people have read. Thanks
Mike Hagy :
Date: September 12, 2008 @ 11:18 pm
Yes from experience you need to adjust for oxygen and map ect sensors for the changes and you can really get it to work. Also my buddy down the street just got 40mpg out of his dually 454 loaded with logs. but he made intake and carb adjustments. There is actually a vmu being produced for about 500 bucks that will automatically adjust voltages necessary for city/highway driving I am going to pick one up soon. Yes this stuff does work but it is better on highway mileage
Mike Hagy :
Date: September 12, 2008 @ 11:25 pm
oh yes the liters per minute does have something to do with the mpg. a medium sized v6 should be about 45-55 lpm but watch your amperage because it can run an alternator hard. there are some multiple cells out there that will use less amps for more volume. Another piece of advice is the electrodes using tubular shapes work better and a “pulse” gen also helps getting more production of hydrogen. I dont sell these HHO’s just participating. At the energy expo earlier this year there was a system on a car there and it got a lot of attention.
Mike Hagy :
Date: September 12, 2008 @ 11:30 pm
I am currently working on a vaccuum assist for lead foots on city driving also.
dennisb :
Date: September 13, 2008 @ 7:58 am
Mike, I appreciate your input. I may have to give this a second look. I think it is important for people to understand that just buying a basic Hydrogen generator kit and installing it not going to yield them higher gas mileage. To have a chance at increasing the mileage there are many other considerations. To name a few – 1. The volume of Hydrogen gas being produced, is it enough? – 2. Possibly altering the readings from the Oxygen sensors, MAP and ECT may be necessary, so the car’s computer doesn’t dump more gasoline and therefore decrease the mileage. – 3. Excessive amps drawn by the Hydrogen generator, could over-work and fry the car’s alternator, costing more money to replace than any savings gained in increased fuel mileage.
Back to the drawing board…
Bob Ameigh :
Date: January 7, 2010 @ 1:58 pm
I have been rsearching HHO cells for 2 yrs and ready to start investment after I get back to work.I have a 2000Bonneville SSEI V6 3.8 supercharged engine.It only needs 3-4 LPM to get the mileage gains i need.most people don’t understand that you
also need a EFFIe and a MAF/Map controller with a PWM to control and set up a true HHO generator to work correctly.Dry cells are twice as effective as wet cell generators and less room for installs are needed.WWW.
MPG Solutions can answer most questions to setting up these add on items and why they must be used with the CPU in the vehicles today.You must make the vehicle believe it has less oxygen than it is getting so the engine will drop off fuel requirements and use the Hydogen to supplement the difference of fuel in the motor.
jcundergrace :
Date: January 8, 2010 @ 6:11 pm
I am a mechanical engineer and have a 97 civic that I’ve tested for a year w/a 6 cell system. They are the glass jar types with coils. I also worked with a nearby engineering college to determine what the best methods and practices were ie; how much electrolyte, plates versus coils, and etc. What we were stopped by in each case was the ECU of the cars we used. I installed a map sensor enhancer and sought to trick the computer by covering the O2 sensors with foil. This was to make the ECU think that it was burning too much fuel to lean the mix. I got mixed results… sometimes up to the 40s (mpg) and then back down to the high 20s (mpg). It takes about a half of a tank for the computer to correct itself base on what the sensors are communicating back. I have let this sit for the last 6 months or so. However, I just saw a device that plugs into your diagnostic port and can modify your fuel:air mix. I may buy this soon. Will report on how it works.
stan :
Date: September 14, 2015 @ 10:18 am
I see that all the experiments are done with cars with computers which create the greatest challenges for the experimenters. Has anyone experimented on older model cars without computers that have carburetors which are still around. To me this tell us how much effect the computer has on these tests
dennisb - Auto Tool Sales :
Date: September 14, 2015 @ 10:40 am
Stan using a hydrogen generator is an appealing idea, especially when gas prices are higher. But there’s no benefit and the only ones making money are the ones selling this stuff! Regardless if the vehicle has a carb or not, 15 amps or so of current required to create the electrolysis uses power from the engine which turns the alternator. Any small amount of benefit is canceled out. Especially when you consider that the plates won’t last forever and need to be replaced too. Do yourself a favor and air your tires up, keep your engine tuned and watch the the jack rabbit starts! You’ll get better benefit than putting this garbage on your car.
stan :
Date: September 14, 2015 @ 11:40 am
dennisb.Thanks for reply.. I could not dispute what you say. But I have never read where an experiment was done on a car without a computer until then I will always wonder.